S9E8: World War II and Zoos with John Kinder
John M. Kinder is on the show to discuss World War II and zoos. Together with Claudia the episode touches on how zoos were implicated in the propaganda and the nazification of Europe, how concentration camps had zoos, and some of the devastating day to day decisions that needed to be made about the keeping of captive animals during war time.

John M. Kinder is Professor of History and Director of the American Studies Program at Oklahoma State University. He holds a PhD in American Studies from the University of Minnesota, and his research explores the relationship between war and American society since the nineteenth century. He has published three books: Paying with Their Bodies: American War and the Problem of the Disabled Veteran (2015), Service Denied: Marginalized Veterans in Modern American History (2022), and World War Zoos: Humans and Other Animals in the Deadliest Conflict of the Modern Age (2025). His latest book, co-edited with historian Jennifer Murray, is titled They Are Dead and Yet They Live: Civil War Memories in a Polarized America and will be published by the University of Nebraska Press in February 2026. He is currently working on three book projects: a cultural history of alligators for the British publisher Reaktion, a true crime history of World War II-era Mississippi, and a co-edited volume about the animal trade and American empire.
Mentioned:
World War Zoos by John M. Kinder
Paying with Their Bodies by John M. Kinder
They Are Dead and Yet They Live edited by Edited by John M. Kinder and Jennifer M. Murray
Service Denied Edited by John M. Kinder and Jason Hggens
Babylon’s Ark by Lawrence Anthony
News with Shatabdi Chakrabarti, Jessica Scott-Reid, and Jan Dutkiewicz on The Animal Turn
Horse Power on Stones
"Zoos send many messages, but the most consequential is that wild animals and humans belong to separate worlds—one in 'nature,' the other in civilization; one in captivity, the other looking in from the outside" (World War Zoos, 238).

Thank you to Animals in Philosophy, Politics, Law and Ethics (A.P.P.L.E) for sponsoring this podcast; the Sonic Arts Studio and the Sonic Arts of Place Laboratory (SAPLab) for sponsoring this season; Gordon Clarke (Instagram: @_con_sol_) for the bed music, Jeremy John (Website) for the logo. This show is produced and hosted by Claudia Hirtenfelder.



